Crossover Contra Cliquishness

11/6/2012

I was reading Jeff Kaufman's post from a week or so ago (wow, was Halloween really only a week ago?) about cliquishness in contra and it got me thinking on a bit of a tangent, but one that I think it worth looking at.

I recently had a conversation with a dance gypsy from New Jersey, and in the course of our chat I told him about an experience Steve and I had where we experienced cliquishness at a regional dance in another state. Both of us were having a lot of trouble finding partners (and being refused flatly when we asked around if people would like to dance, which was weird since several people stopped us and complimented us on this site and our YouTube videos that night, so I don't think it was a "common denominator" issue), to the point that by the last set we gave up and just enjoyed the music on the sidelines, and that wasn't the first time I'd danced there and had that problem, which was really concerning.

The Jersey dancer I talked to suggested two things: 1) that we not judge the community in question based on an event crowd (although, he admitted, it's kind of cliquey on regular nights too), and 2) that I give that community two more tries before I gave up (for a total of four). Okay, I can do that. They won't be four in a row, but he seemed to be under the impression that four was the magic number.

Which actually begs a question -- how many dances do you give a community that's cliquish before you give up? Does it matter if you're there for an event/weekend or a regular dance? Speaking to Jeff's point, does the exclusivity make you want to be accepted by the community, or is it a real turn-off? If the latter, how might we as a broad community fix that?

Perry

11/8/2012 09:53:44 pm

Cliquishness is a big pet peeve of mine. Jeff's point about it potentially being healthy is a good one - you are doing something fun with your friends, and that has the look of a fun, vibrant community, but if you're having trouble participating then it might be less fun. Glen Echo is cliquish too - but they have large enough numbers that usually it's not a problem, though I have been known to leave on a Sunday night because I can't find a partner for 2 or even 3 dances in a row. I see people at Glen Echo that NEVER dance with anyone but their bestest buddies, and there are people that ordinarily I'd like to dance with but they've booked their next 6 dances and that actually kind of sours me on them as a person. And how much line mixing is done with the far left line (the younger crowd) and the far right line (the older crowd)? My wish is that, especially for the Friday night dance, EVERY experienced dancer endeavor to find a new dancer to dance with, at least for the first dance or two, but they don't do that. I've seen other dances where there is a gigantic crowd in the dance lesson and people STILL find one of the few remaining experienced dancers to dance with. It's a problem everywhere, especially at the big popular venues. Being a community dance means that we welcome new people to the dance.

Hollis link

11/8/2012 09:57:20 pm

I think that if you're a new dancer, often you give the dance one try, and then you quit contra dancing. That's the story I've heard again and again from friends who don't dance (anymore). It strikes me as a sad and unnecessary loss.

To me, the cliquishness question comes down to this: my vision of social dancing is that everyone is included, and that people are not encouraged to use structural factors like cliques to make others feel unwelcome. The question is whether contra dancing is meant to be social dancing in that way, and I think we'd see a bunch of disagreement on that point.

dest/jess(ie)/etc.

11/12/2012 10:01:23 am

How many times will i tolerate cliquishness before i give up and go somewhere else? I think it depends on A. the level of ciquishness and B. the quality of the dancing when i do get a partner. If i find myself consistently shut out by large numbers of dancers for no reason i can discern but i can still have a lot of fun dancing with other partners often enough, that may be enough for me to just ignore the Hip Cool Dancer types and have fun with the others. I've done that at YDW. The same goes when only a handful of the dancers around are able to really dancer me into the floor but i'm not getting shut out much. When i get shut out a lot *and* the ones that are around don't dance in the ways that i like most, that's when i'm likely to lose patience the fastest.

As for cliquishness in general...It's one of the big reasons why i have a big problem with booking ahead. My experience is that booking tends to unconsciously increase booking, because we're much more likely to book with others already on the dance floor who we know and like. Yes, i know, each of us is there to dance with the folks that really excite us and we have more room to play with a partner we know well. But the way that we maintain that list of partners we know well is by continuously growing new ones. Everyone knows the best way to become a better dancer is to dance with someone really good. If someone dances with me in a way that makes it impossible for me to be pleasant and happy while dancing with them, ok, but i push myself to keep that list short. I agree with perry that there are a lot of folks in our dances that really need to learn to branch out more and share with the community. Still, i would suggest a different rubric, since we want newcomers and less experienced dancers to keep going the whole night, not just the first couple dances.

So here's my rule of thumb:
One, i don't book unless it's necessary for some reason; booking is a troublesome practice, and the only way to stop it is for folks dancing the less common dance role (leads if there are more follows, follows if there are more leads, switches all the time) to actively refuse to book ahead, thereby creating space for others to make the same choice and for folks not able or aware to still get partners on the spot.
Two, i try to make sure i dance at least a few dances over the course of the night with folks i know are not as good as me*, ideally with at least one person who's just starting out and at least one person who's been around more. And i try to dance at least a few dances with partners who are experienced dancers and favorites of mine who really push me as a dancer. If i'm not dancing with folks who aren't as good as me at least some of the time, i'm not helping others to grow and find their place in the group and i'm not taking good care of the community. If i'm not dancing with folks who are as good or better than me some of the time, i'm not growing as a dancer and i'm not taking good care of myself.

*Note: this part of the rule doesn't apply to dancers who are just starting out and need time to learn the steps themselves.

johnnyg

3/13/2013 06:55:26 pm

My wife and I have been dancing forever - compared to most of the young people we run into these days. Missed dance and social opportunities never cease - doesn't matter what form of dance is on the venue, or, what decade you're talking about. We've learned that there are good nights and bad nights, good rooms and bad rooms, nice towns and mean towns. You do best to go by instinct - if you feel like going home, go home before permanent damage sets in... There will be another dance next week. Who to dance with, when it comes to "strangers," can be tough; sometimes you get an expert who highjacks your efforts - other times you get a beginner who manages to actually hurt you. Most of the time you get a turn with someone and you both have a good time. My wife and I do not always dance together; we make a point to find someone new - really new to dance is a bonus - to dance with after no more than two or three dances together. We'll break this pattern if one of is hurt, not feeling well, or just not up to it, but otherwise we're there to dance with whoever shows up TOO. If we didn't want to dance with other people, we could have danced at home!

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Crossover Contra Cliquishness

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